| #1 OrcManiac (ppp213.103.mmtl.videotron.net)[7951] |
|
Nice job killing this toss bastard !
I love to see toss going down to terran :|
the br was nice too.
hum that is all.
Oh yeah a msg for elm : " DIE "
Orc |
| #2 Persian-POW (proxy2-external.rdc1.az.home.com)[7952] |
|
| First off, Great report Vegas I really enjoyed it (I like all reports where I lose), and the blue background didn't bother me that much either. One thing though, I only built 1 carrier, I just hallucinated it a few times in hopes that you would start cranking ghosts and goliaths like mad, which die quickly to goons. You did, but of course it was too late to help and I lost anyway. |
| #3 Johnny_Vegas (pool0019.cvx9-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net)[7954] |
|
| Wow, I didnt think anyone would read this until morning! Late nighters I see. =] Yeah POW you had me almost dead with that initial cannon push, I am lucky I survived. I am just amazed at how well terran ground does when you use spidermines and siege tanks. Also Rivalry is a perfect map for that strat. Persian, I am curious on why you didn't go carriers? But that's a big investment, I can't blame u for that. That's like saying when I lose, why didn't I make BC's? |
| #4 ~CattleBruiser~ (h198-82-92-30.dhcp.vt.edu)[7961] |
|
| Who else checks heir newly-posted reports every 15 minutes in hopes that someone will post the first comment? |
| #5 ~CattleBruiser~ (h198-82-92-30.dhcp.vt.edu)[7962] |
|
| Who else checks their newly-posted reports every 15 minutes in hopes that someone will post the first comment? |
| #6 YourRoleModel (relay.atinc.com)[7963] |
|
| I check. I'm YourCommentWhore remember? Nice report JV. |
| #7 DisgruntledApe (dt050n39.maine.rr.com)[7968] |
|
Yeah there are a few things that would have killed you, Vegas. And that is carriers and or dweb. He didn't make either. Perhaps he laxed after the cannon push?
Well it was still a great report. I liked seeing a different background for once. Good Job JV!
DA |
| #8 Slurgi (1Cust116.tnt4.des-moines.ia.da.uu.net)[7970] |
|
Nice report JV
I guess i must be a stud, reading all these battle reports of you beating people... But i beat you with zerg =p. How embarrasing huh? Terran losing to zerg? bah, you suck...
ok, I'm done pissing you off for the next 5 minutes... |
| #9 Johnny_Vegas (pool197-cvx.ds67-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net)[7973] |
|
| Oh yeah, he did have dweb, but he didn't use it that much. He almost took my 9 o clock expansion with it and reavers, but i had a few tanks that didn't get dwebbed. Also my goliaths kept the corsairs in check. |
| #10 Pieter (proxyc3.cyberway.com.sg)[7976] |
|
| If there's any words...I can't see them |
| #11 Heartcutter (209.185.98.79)[7977] |
|
I lost to an early cannon push last night on temple. It's kind of crazy that a zealot has 160 hit points, while a tank has 150. Good job fending it off, though.
Cannon pushes are cheesy, but they work.
|
| #12 Johnny_Vegas (staff-8.ahnet.net)[7978] |
|
| Hey Pieter, since you probably have some brand of netscape they Style Sheets I use may not work correctly. Let me guess you have an old browser? |
| #13 Johnny_Vegas (fink.ahnet.net)[7979] |
|
| Just tested it in Netscape 4.5 and IE 4, and 5 and they all work fine. |
| #14 Fizban_ (ts4-12.amery.Spacestar.Net)[7982] |
|
Hey Slurgi,
I don't think you should have posted that. I seem to recall a quote i heard you say one time, maybe it was me, but i specifically remember you saying it:
"I can Beat anyone in nohunters, but not you...Damnit, i can't kill Fizban_." Pissed_Slurgi
Hehe :) |
| #15 .Praetor (port-sac49.cwo.com)[7983] |
|
Nice report Johnny! Where do you find the time to micro mine fields all over the place?
~CB~ I check my comments religiously! In fact, every few days I do a search for .Praetor to see if my commment numbers for all my reports have gone up =). |
| #16 Johnny_Vegas (fink.ahnet.net)[7984] |
|
I am a comment whore. I admit it. Hehe
I lay like 5+ mines at a time, using groups of vultures, the minimap, and the "I" hotkey. |
| #17 Whoop (pool0032.cvx12-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net)[7985] |
|
WHEEEEEE
Ummmm
DIE ELM! |
| #18 Johnny_Vegas (fink.ahnet.net)[7988] |
|
Hey whoop that team melee was fun last night. I enjoyed the vulture "run by". Hehe.
Is it me or have vultures been actually USEFUL lately? |
| #19 SnowSquall (calamari.frognet.net)[7992] |
|
Yes, vultures have served me very nicely lately thanks to my reading of competent usage of them on here. Of course I had to open my big mouth on NH and mention that in passing, and promptly got beat down, but I digress...
|
| #20 Persian-POW (proxy2-external.rdc1.az.home.com)[7993] |
|
| Yes vultures have been owning everyone lately. Mined bridges with tanks behind become almost unassailable unless you massively outnumber your opponent. Especially goons because they have to cross bridges single file making them particularly vulnerable to tanks. |
| #21 -DarkZeaiot- (spider-tq061.proxy.aol.com)[7995] |
|
Kick report Johnny, nice usage of mines.
And Persian, for the mine fields, a well placed psistorm can usually take'em out, and maybe a few DT's would've helped against the tanks in siege... |
| #22 Johnny_Vegas (staff-8.ahnet.net)[7997] |
|
| Wrong on both accounts Darkzealot. Getting close enough to storm the mines would get the Htemp killed by either tanks, or most definetly by vultures. I will sacrifice 4 vultures to kill one HT. And of course DT cannot kill the sieged tanks, because there are mines all over the place. In addition vultures can kill a DT real fast with a turret nearby or after comsatting, if they somehow get past the mines. |
| #23 Johnny_Vegas (staff-8.ahnet.net)[7998] |
|
| Wrong on both accounts Darkzealot. Getting close enough to storm the mines would get the Htemp killed by either tanks, or most definetly by vultures. I will sacrifice 4 vultures to kill one HT. And of course DT cannot kill the sieged tanks, because there are mines all over the place. In addition vultures can kill a DT real fast with a turret nearby or after comsatting, if they somehow get past the mines. |
| #24 Mark4 (strangers.bragg.army.mil)[8005] |
|
Behold, the next lurker rush. =[
Any toss want to give a textbook counter to this strat? |
| #25 Ativus (proxy2-external.omhaw1.ne.home.com)[8006] |
|
| What, you mean other than the 8 zeal rush? Nail him before those factories get up... |
| #26 Johnny_Vegas (staff-8.ahnet.net)[8007] |
|
| Well, I did it again last night. Same strat versus T_Mac. I will posting about it soon. Anyway, I just walled in at my ramp, and that let me live long enough to get my factories going. After I had tanks and mines, it was pay dirt baby!! |
| #27 Johnny_Vegas (fink.ahnet.net)[8009] |
|
And mark4, the thing about this strat is its not a "set in stone" build order like the lurker rush.
Also its not quite as "all or nothing" like the lurker rush is either. I'd probably say the lurker rush is a "better" strat, but this "heavy metal" strat is at LEAST an alternative to M&M's every game versus toss.
For instance, sometimes I get tanks before vultures, and sometimes I get vultures first with mines.
If they are going goon or zealot rush, I get tanks first. If I see a dtemp rush or fast tech, then I am going to go for the vultures first.
I think Heartcutter would agree that its not a rigid build order. And I also advocate getting 1 or 2 turrets around the time dtemps come for extra security. |
| #28 Mark4 (strangers.bragg.army.mil)[8010] |
|
| A straight one zealot dtemp rush will get so owned by this if you attack with the first vulture it isn't even funny. The toss wont have anything to kill the vulture with, and the probes will be entirely destroyed. If you use this, you need never fear a true dtemp rush again =p. |
| #29 Whoop (209.179.223.225)[8011] |
|
Man this is UNSTOPPABLE
I am never playing toss vs terran AGAIN!
Dang all that imbalance crap be damned its all about the 2 factory build!
|
| #30 Johnny_Vegas (fink.ahnet.net)[8013] |
|
Your a smart man whoop. You've finally seen the light!
But seriously, it is a good build versus most protoss builds. Quite well rounded.
You just gotta know where to put the mines and tanks.
Ah yes, and vulture speed is insanely important. In addition Goliaths are also important. |
| #31 Mark4 (147.239.118.3)[8014] |
|
| Whoop, make yourself usefull and post some cost effective counters/tactics. Quit saying it sucks and that you always beat it, then not telling us how =p. |
| #32 Johnny_Vegas (fink.ahnet.net)[8015] |
|
Whoop is such a macro whore, he could probably go Zealot versus Vulture all game long eventually running you over.
=p
Also when whoop is terran, he probably could go mass vultures with no mines, versus my mass goons and beat me.
Ok he's not THAT good. hehe |
| #33 Whoop (209.179.223.225)[8017] |
|
ok fine and dandy i think its been said before by me but u werent listening
What map? Strats depend on map but since this was rivalry we can use it as a good place to start. Depending on how close you are a nice zeal rush should be the start with quick transition to goons. If u can enter the base harrass and destroy as much as possible with early zeals/goons. Regardless dont be a moron and loose troops needlessly. If you are close you may be able to set him back seriously with early goons.
Assuming he plays smart and you can't kill him now you are in containment mode. Use goons. When he sieges in range of your goons take 1 step back. Rinse and repeat.
Meanwhile leave some men at home in case of a drop while teching and expanding. With the way the bases are set up all you need is a couple cannons and temps to stop drops. Continue to use your main force to contain. Tanks will slaughter goons so dont engage unless you find him dumb enough to unsiege a lot at once in which case rush in and destroy.
Once you have 3 bases or so you can use the strategy of your choice. Goons + Dweb is a popular viable option. I prefer carriers my self on this map due to the bridges and what not. You can also mass ZEALS and run through his forces since you are outresourcing so much.
Mines + tanks will not hold a bridge against 24 zeals.
Don't get me wrong its a good strat. I like it. Vultures and mines are fun. But this strat is easier for a toss player to beat than infantry early AND mid game. Late game is up for grabs.
Besides the strat skill is the deciding factor is 75%+ games
Containment is the key. If the terran DOES bust out just hold at bridges and make him seige/unsiege a lot. You may loose your main but dunt worry you should have enough expo's so that wont matter.
This is why inantry is better early on. With infantry he can contain you still but its much easier to break out. Tanks you have to slowly push your way out.
Please dont tell me that golly's beat carriers since we all know they dont. |
| #34 Johnny_Vegas (fink.ahnet.net)[8019] |
|
Yeah, gollies don't beat carriers I agree with that. When late game hits you have to get some ghosts if your forced to fight carriers. Tank pushing the place where the stargates reside is also important, as going mass carriers and defending your base is going to be tough.
Your containment strat is ok, but every time they try that against me, I send the vultures in front, siege like 8+ tanks within range. If they back off, go lay mines as close to the goons as you can. Then moves the tanks behind the mines. Look for holes in containment where you can run some vultures out to go rape some peons.
The trick is to use mines to make the containment force backpedal, then advance your tanks LARGE amounts of distance at a time. Obviously I wouldn't bother doing this all the way across the map, but on a map like rivalry you just have to push across a bridge and secure it with mines and you are set.
The reason I am starting to dislike infantry is the complete ownage of High temps and reavers over them. Still I do build some marines when I have bunkers to fill, or simply if I have a lot of minerals and want to switch strats during the game. |
| #35 OrcManiac (ppp208.104.mmtl.videotron.net)[8020] |
|
Hey whoop humm you know what?
goliath beat carrier EZ ;)
ok seriously I use this strat often and whoop just told you the best counter. Fast zeaks rush like max 3 then goons transition is very tough for ran and if he is ready then just try to contain like he said. The thing is I can adapt too whoop :|. once i got my expansion running(temple) and i got some vessel i will make MM + vulture + tank + gols. Then the biggest threat is temp like always.... good luck.
Orc |
| #36 gruntwrapper (CITRIX4.CUYAHOGA.LIB.OH.US)[8021] |
|
How about this for an interesting twist on heavy metal terran strats. Take 8 speed-upgraded vultures, dmatrix
them all, and fly into your enemy's base and crater their
workers. |
| #37 Johnny_Vegas (fink.ahnet.net)[8023] |
|
That's a good strat gruntwrapper. Unfortunately I usually don't have 8 dmatrixes handy until late game.
But if you have the means, go for it. Plus its funny. Haha |
| #38 MikeyMonty (spider-wk052.proxy.aol.com)[8024] |
|
| I have to admit I was acceptable about this build at first, since I play regular sc and this build seems specialized for dt rushers. But I used it a few times today, on rivalry and road war, and it worked well because of the easy transition to tanks. |
| #39 Whoop (pool0333.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net)[8032] |
|
| As I've said before skill is imbalanced. |
| #40 The-Dark-0ne (proxy4.gvcl1.bc.home.com)[8033] |
|
Great report i have one thing to say though if he sent some dt in early he would have complely annihated you but he didn't he let u get dectection and start ammassing troops
Big bad mistake |
| #41 -DarkZeaiot- (spider-tq024.proxy.aol.com)[8042] |
|
| Johnny, I beg to differ, the range of psistorm is 2 less than a tank with full range.. with proper distance and planning, the htemp will get the storm off and not get hit with arclite fire, and I added the DT forgetting about turret's =(.. but the htemp would be able to get the mines no questions asked. |
| #42 gruntwrapper (dialup-cle25.nls.net)[8043] |
|
mass-dematrixing late game can be fun. It can also throw your opponent off because they arent sure what to do. For instance, throw 6 dematrixed marines in a dropship, detrix the ship, fly it in backed up with some dropships with regular marines. The front six act like archons and abosrb all the damage.
Mass dematrix has the best advantage in my opinion with the smaller units. I try to make sure I have a generous amount of SVs.
Another thing to try is 6 dematrixed marines attack at one base. Your enemy usually will have to concentrate there to fight it off. Send your real attack force somewhere else. |
| #43 Fractal_Wave (proxy4.gvcl1.bc.home.com)[8052] |
|
dude.....it's blue....how coool is that?
Sorry. I'm ~really~ tired. A great report of a great game Johnny!
(Toss Cannon Push owns you all!)
;)
gruntwrapper, try a vulture drop. Now that's corny
All the best,
Fractal_Wave |
| #44 Persian-POW (proxy2-external.rdc1.az.home.com)[8057] |
|
| Wow, that pic was bigger than I thought. |
| #45 Dino Din (port-49-48.access.one.net)[8062] |
|
| one possibility, if he has the mines/tanks/vultures set up on the bridges, is to use the Dark Archon, if you MC the lead tank, you will probably bring mines back, that may blow up vultures, other tanks etc. It depends on where his tanks are posistioned however, if the mines are that far away tho, then they CAN be psi stormed |
| #46 -=elminster=- (216-132-37-251.ihug.net)[8063] |
|
Uhm I still think imbalance simply lays on the map instead of races mostly. For example in rivalry terran vs toss is pretty balanced (well both sides suffer from stupid AI of goons and gollies and tanks 8P when trying to cross bridges). I don't like it for zerg vs terran however because of the lack of easily defendable gas expansion and limited space for flanking action, which is essential against terran's push.(Well guardian rushing might work but i dont really like it 8() Anyway Im sucky so it doesnt really matter 8(.
Btw can anyone tell me why does orc and whoop hate me so much ? 8( |
| #47 Mark4 (strangers.bragg.army.mil)[8070] |
|
| Jealousy is such an ugly thing Elm. Don't worry, I'm sure they sell out all the players better than them =] |
| #48 T_Mac (ts7-68t-17.idirect.com)[8072] |
|
| Sigh, jv you had to tell them? Now everyone knows how crappy i am! I mean,losing to a terran?I must really suck :( |
| #49 2Inadequate (149.chicago-03-04rs.il.dial-access.att.net)[8087] |
|
| Any1 who has played elm doesnt think he sucks. Of that I'm almost sure of =D Elm could take soooo many good players and he says he sux. DONT BELIEVE HIM!!!!!! ok me done. |
| #50 Cashew-of-Doom (sktnsk01d05150197.sk.sympatico.ca)[8107] |
|
Man, you guys all forgot the totally improbable and prohibitively expensive solution. Simply recall a zealot or two into the middle of the minefield, and if you put the zealots on the very edges of the recall, you'll end up having them at about the right spots to trigger all the mines! And Unless people make extremely huge minefields it works. But, as I said before, It's prohibitively expensive and stupid :P
|
| #51 IPlayThisToMuch (1Cust104.tnt9.har1.da.uu.net)[8156] |
|
| so what is stopping me from sending a few zealots to run into te mine fiield blow them p then send in a few more and hit the tanks hile there in Sige mode, i mean if u lay them on a bridge, which u were, 2 zealots could trggier them all, or what about if Persian had decided to prdoce a few scoyts and sent them over the bridge with an observe and blew them up where your tanks coulndt hit them, or he really could have dwebbed the tanks the done PSI on the mines and i think it kills them. ok well i hope i dont sound to pickey and shit but i just thought these are few things persian may want to use if he plays u again. hehe and if u still owned him with his early cheese cannon then if he dont cheese cannon i REALLY wanna see that game. |
| #52 Zero-The-Feared (ts7-61t-19.idirect.com)[8260] |
|
Hey thats one nice BR
you the man JV
this isn't related but who cares ...
a good strat to use against toss players as zerg is a triple hatch zerglings rush... it works well.. i owned T_mac with it and he loves me for it.. he couldn't produce enough zealots to fight me back and i had him killing lings again and again and didn't give him time to get to the ramp choke on LT to fight them off
if anyone wants my Triple hatch zerglings order... then 2 BAD ITS ALL MINE MAUAHAHAHA |
| #53 T_Mac (ts7-42t-46.idirect.com)[8265] |
|
| Whoa whoa zero skill, hold on a minute. You forgot to mention that i had attacked you with my first 3 zealots AND 12 probes to see if it would work! Without those 12 probes mining, it would be easy for you to have over run me. If you want to try your triple hatch on me again sometime just ask :p |
| #54 Mr. Merf (dial-up236.twistedpair.net)[8303] |
|
Great BR and I have to say the blue background was welcome=]
BTW, does stasis have any effect on detected mines? |
| #55 Zero-The-Feared (ts7-84t-8.idirect.com)[8372] |
|
ya ya T_mac
you just jealous that a person with a ladder record of "297" beat a girl... oops guy of "1151"
My triple hatch owns you |
| #56 T_Mac (216.154.35.196)[8398] |
|
| Bleh, is today beat up on T_Mac day? Sigh, nm, i know i suck. |
| #57 Mark4 (strangers.bragg.army.mil)[8413] |
|
| Tmac is cool, but he is a disconnector. He even disc on me in chat. Twice. And three times as an observor. Get a real ISP! |
| #58 T_Mac (ts7-41t-12.idirect.com)[8431] |
|
lol, "Note: Picture may not be real."
hehe
mark's just scared cuz if he owns me and i dont disc, he'll have to deal with my incessant crying.
PLAY ME MARK! |
| #59 Zero-The-Feared (ts7-82t-47.idirect.com)[8437] |
|
no luv for T_mac
Anyways i know what would be cool
4FFA with T_mac/Me/Persian-POW/UpgradedKakaru
Also I am liking getting kicked from the-feared
they call a ladder record of 297 abusing
My new name is [8th]LeGend
give me a shout
|
| #60 [8th]LeGenD (ts7-82t-47.idirect.com)[8438] |
|
how do you add images... i forgot
p.s T_mac sucks :) |
| #61 T_Mac (ts7-50t-34.idirect.com)[8440] |
|
| grrr |
| #62 Persian-POW (proxy2-external.rdc1.az.home.com)[8455] |
|
| About his fourth e-bay, well, he probably would have lost that one too, but he pulled a T_Mac and disconnected first. |
| #63 Persian-POW (proxy2-external.rdc1.az.home.com)[8540] |
|
| Johnny, this report is at the bottom of the page. I think you should use your administrative powers to move it up to the top. |
| #64 00JaKe (dial-in16.mach7.com)[8722] |
|
| Johnny Vegas, nice report...it entertained me during a slow work day. I am curious to know how long the battle took, however, I did not see it mentioned. Maybe I overlooked it. |
| #65 Persian-POW (proxy2-external.rdc1.az.home.com)[9618] |
|
1:10:04
It's on the stats picture. |
| #66 huh (stj229.nf.sympatico.ca)[12141] |
|
| <table width=500><tr><td class=whiteonblue>sdsd</td></tr> |
| #67 Johnny_Vegas (control.ahnet.net)[14111] |
|
| 00Jake, is that you Kolhoff? Wassup MAN! |
| #68 Persian (proxy1-external.rdc1.az.home.com)[17695] |
|
| 73!!! |
| #69 Eat me[125682] |
| 24.86.186.55 |
| Eat me |
| #70 A multiplayer (mostly 3player + comps)[130783] |
| pm17d434.iae.nl |
you ever tried to irradiate a few zerg larva, works great!
hah hah.
oh, if you scv attack an enemy building all of the comps poens will follow the scv! lead that scv to 3 of your filled bunkers!
tat tat tat tat , bye comp! |
| #71 [PPF]Celtic[132331] |
| ppp198-nosp1.i-55.com |
| Nice report. I enjoyed it :P |
| #72 wakiki[154048] |
| cable-24-158-230-168.mtv.al.charter.com |
| Best one so far :D |
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